Alicia McCalla's Interview with Penelope Flynn

Alicia McCalla's Interview with Penelope Flynn

Alicia McCalla's transcript interview with Penelope Flynn

Hey everybody and welcome to my writing playground this is Episode #7 of Diverse SciFi and Fantasy Stories Podcast. I’m your host, author, Alicia McCalla. Thanks for tuning in! This podcast is all about me honoring my son’s legacy by sharing my diverse science fiction and fantasy stories with the world… Today, I have the wonderful opportunity to share the works of another author who also writes Diverse Science Fiction and Fantasy. 

Let me tell you about Penelope!

As an author and 3D Illustrator Penelope Flynn enjoys creating mixed genre adult-targeted speculative fiction featuring elements of horror, suspense, science fiction, romantica and fantasy. She has works in the Dark Universe anthologies, The Steamfunk anthology, Genesis: An Anthology of Black Science Fiction Book II, Scierogenous II, Blerdrotica I and the novel, The Chronicles of Renfields: Regarding Koescu. “Unfleamed,” her Renfields-based short story is one of 29 stories featured in the SLAY: Stories of the Vampire Noire anthology and the second of  the Chronicles of Renfields: The First Book of Ramona is scheduled for release October 30, 2020. 

Penelope Flynn is cover artist for her Chronicles of Renfields, cover and an interior artist for the Flash Bang anthology, cover artist for Carole McDonnell’s novelette, The Charcoal Bride and Stone Mays’ Blumeverse short “Ava Dianthus and her Minion of Evil.” Her works can be found at and

Alicia:  Okay, hey and welcome Penelope, I am excited to see you!

Penelope: I am excited to be here. 

Alicia: First, I want to reiterate that Penelope is one of the Slay Vampire Noire anthology authors. So you want to tell us a little bit about Unfleamed and what it's all about?

Penelope:Well, Unfleamed is actually a story I started. I mean a while back, a long time ago. It's actually the first origin story well, second origin story for Renfields and Renfields is you know my at this moment, magnum opus. Renfields is a series and it is regarding vampires but not just vampires but you know all different shape shifters. But Renfield themselves who are a hybrid, they are vampires and they are human beings. You know our nomenclature, the Renfield universe this place that we live is called the Paradox. The vampires that we speak of are actually descendants of  actual travellers who come from another dimension, another galaxy, another actual universe. So these people, these Renfields, all these millennia have been caretakers of these Revenants. Who for reasons you will find in the books, have issues with being able to interact in this world the way that it is. So the Renfields are...they’re hybrid of themselves and the Paradoxans who kind of do their will. This all came about from of course my reading of Bram Stoker’s Dracula, the character Renfield who was insane in Dr Seward’s facility and he was the acolyte of Dracula. But I thought when I read this, many years after I read this, what if, what if he wasn't the only one. And what if he was just crazy and the rest of them are not and that’s where the story came from. The concept of Renfields, as these people who are created by the Revenants who are the vampires in order to serve them. Who are of course bound by blood they have the same bloodlines but how one determines they are the master and the others the servant even though the servants are smart, sharp and also very wealthy as time goes by. So this is that story and Unfleamed tell the story of how the praefect of the Renfield organization, the imperial head, how she first meets the character that we see in Bram Stoker’s Dracula

Alicia: Oh wow that sounds exciting, I always think of when I was a kid... I know this is like totally corny but I remember people used to say Renfield!! right, because Renfield was nuts!! (Laughter)

Penelope: Yes, that’s precisely the issue. This man, who is supposed to be one of their own and we think Renfield, he’s nuts...yeh, he was. And it's like, as a person… cause all this and the way I kind of work through being an African American in the United States is kind of what Renfields is for me. We are the hybrid of race and culture that is you know, in my mind that’s better than the songless birds, but yet we still find ourselves in these suppressed and oppressed situations regardless. So this is my homage to my people and their journey as a hybrid trying to navigate this world.

Alicia: Right,okay, so let’s talk about the scene that you are going to share today from the Renfields. So where is the scene from in that series?

Penelope: This is the first scene from the book of Ramona which is a novel that is being released on October 30th, generally it’s on October 30th. The main character of Renfield even though we have a book already out called Regarding Koescu. Regarding Koescu is basically the story of an individual who is Revenant who is an ally and we deal with issues of how our allies see the world and how they see us. Then we do the first book Ramona, well Romona is actually the main character of Renfields. Ramona is the daughter of the imperial head, she is the praefect’s eldest daughter and she is the heir apparent. She is getting ready to make that move into the position of power where she not only takes over the traditional role as her but also head of the cooperation. So she is the first individual ever to be prepared for that role as head of the cooperation and the traditional organization of Renfield. So you know she is very smart, savvy, very disciplined but of course because of who she is, issues of nepotism come up all the time and bias, does she really deserve the position she is moving into? So she does have a lot of those imposter syndrome even though she has worked hard for everything she has. And it's a story about hard work about her meeting someone, her whole life is kinda laid out exactly how it's supposed to be then meeting a male, a man who is from Abyssia, so he is like a foreigner he’s from the other universe he comes in but he needs that role too. He wants that job too. There’s a job, an intermediate position she is you’ll know we will find from this segment, the deputy director of investigation and enforcement. The director will soon be leaving so that position will become open. We have a young man, who comes from Abyssia who has basically burned every bridge he has ever crossed in his entire life with his family, with his colleagues etc because he is brash, he is smart you know, beautiful man. But he doesn't know how to work well with others and through a horrible situation as far as Ramona is concerned, somehow he gets hired onto her team. So we have our character who is very disciplined having to deal with a guy who has not dealt with command structure even though he knows how, but he has not dealt with it in recent years and so they clash because she is the person who deveres this.  But he is the person who really wants this. And is one of the first times I have written two characters who are diametrically opposed in that manner and I love both, but I know one of them has to lose and one of them has to win.  

Alicia: Right, okay. I think you set up some good conflict, right (laughter). Alright, so you want to tell us why you are the person to write this story or this series? Cause it sounds like you have been with it for awhile.

Penelope: Yes, absolutely! A very long time because it's something that you kind of have to work through. And the reason why I am like this is because I am a horror fan, I am a fantasy fan. I watched all the films. Me and my sister were big on Hammer and every type of horror that you can imagine from childhood, we loved horror. Then I used to read like Frank Yerby when he tells his story, historical fiction. I love the historical fiction. I love the fact that in his works, they dealt with issues of sexuality it’s one of the things I find with African Americans especially, is that we have been made for so long to be ashamed of talking about issues of sexuality, it’s sex not sexuality, sex. We’ll say it straight out. It’s just sex. That you know we are either eroticized or exotisized and don’t get to tell the story of ourselves and what we find to be pleasurable and how we are attracted to someone. So I put that in my book and I know that’s kind of an issue sometimes, “oh my gosh, no sex.” But I think as a people, that is one thing we have to get over because we have been defined by other people's view of our sex, sexuality for so long. Over sexualized and then you become eunuch in the other sense you know you are either somebody's mammy or some prostitute but never you know hey, I am just a regular woman and this is what I like. I am a regular man and this is what I like. And you know doing those things are natural things but we are taught for ourselves to be ashamed. I am a catholic girl and so you know I grew up in the catholic church and you know of cause you have all these issues with the catholic church not being able to deal with issues of sex and sexuality. And so I find I am uniquely situated, as a catholic person, as a woman, as a black woman to talk about these things. And also the concept of our nature as African American people and that we for so long have not really been able to define ourselves. I think it's important  to understand that we, you know….I love the Scierogeous Soldier, I think it's really great but Steam Funk is the thing that got me because that talked about us here. You know and our true history that emerges from this African American experience and that, that’s where I am at. You know even with Renfields my main character Ramona, is African American even though her mother and father is, when we say African American we are talking about her father, came over you know when he was young with the spanish to  St. Augustine the first city that existed in the United States. So, these people have deep roots here and I want to always look at that our people understand that we are rooted here in the United states and that we are not foreign in that sense you know, the Ellis islanders don't get to say tell me anything. 

Alicia: This is true! Most African Americans have been here for six or seven generations.

Penelope: Right! Ellis islanders don't get to say anything to me. That’s what this is about you know us claiming our heritage through science fiction fantasy horror. You know, and to acknowledge yeah that these people come here and try to leapfrog over us and call us other and it's kind of like well, you weren’t here before so how do you grandfather yourself into those people who did bad to us? And all of a sudden you are aligning yourself to them and basically still and here we are. In Renfields, I cover that in some of the segments about when people are changed they become, you know, the sires and the dames of these vampires or revenants. So I still remain a Renfield, I have been here longer, been blood of your blood for all this time and here comes somebody like yesterday and all of a sudden they are coddled into the hold and still we’re referred to as other. So working through these issues.  

Alicia: So, I think you kind of alluded a little bit about your reason or the inspiration behind the series. Did you want to talk a little bit about that more?

Penelope: Sure! Sure! And again you know all these little thoughts rolling around in my mind. But then you have Renfield. That Renfield you know, who is this crazy man and then the thought that okay what if he isn't the only one?  So this is how it starts, well okay, well  how do we build that? And this even comes from further back from one of my very best friends who I lost a few years ago. She used to read gothic romance all the time! She loved gothic romance. She's like, “oh you got to read this, this is really good this is wonderful”, and so I am reading and I am like this is nice, where the black people at? And when there were black people they were servants, or they were the noble savage, something of that ilk. Always, you know as Spike Lee called it he march of the negro always promoting the interest of the lead character or even if the black person was the lead character they were always a slave or always you know a lord position. You know basically the caste system that we are in. And I thought,well everybody else is stuck with their writing during this period as make belief, so why is their make belief better than our make belief? How do I create a society of people, black people, brown people, in fact Renfields are very diverse you know as far as ethnicity they are all very diverse.  But you will see in the books they see each other as a black person when a Renfield sees another black person and an Anglo person is Renfield sees another Anglo person. They think they and Renfield are alike. They're not like those people that we are alike. They are not like us you know, even though they think they are like us that we look like that I am a blackperson that's a whiteperson they don't get it you know they are not like us, we are like us so that's what the Renfield thing is basically all Renfields are black people. The theory of them is that they all experience of African Americans who have various and sundry backgrounds so, this thing I decided that in order to have us have the life that I wanted us to have in the past and what I write in Renfields is what I call Afro-retroism that I am able to do what's in the past. We can't go into the future until we reclaim ourselves in the past. So these Renfields in the past are powerful, they are rich, they have their own culture and it runs parallel to the history line that's ongoing in normal history. So it's like an alternate history but like a parallel history so that yeah we get to be rich yeah it's not just that we are rich secret society. Everybody knows about them, everyone knows who they are and this parallel universe I have created which I like to call life in the paradox and the paradox comes from the point that those that are coming from Abyssia the home world this other universe that there are from everything is shades of grey. When they come here to this place everything is black and white. Everything is extreme. You know harsh sunlight, dark night. They are eternally twilight where they are you know deserts, great huge deserts, great hydro deserts what they call ocean the hydro deserts. All these things are in terrible extremes and their nature cannot handle it which is why they become feral because they break. You know it's like a quick break between their civil side and their feral side and they can’t handle the sunlight they have to be out at night but the night makes them into nocturnal animals. So it’s like this crazy thing that happens to them which is why they need other people to help them navigate this world 

Alicia: So you kind of spoke a little bit about some of the themes that you’re working on. Is there one thing that is personal to you or that you feel exemplifies your personal experiences or that fascinates you?

Penelope: Yes! And one of the issues is that in Renfields there is's not a matriarchy. It is a meritocracy. But hire a lot of women. Most women are in positions of power because her mother, the main character, her mother is the praefect, she is the head honcho and everything about her is strategy you know. She is like...if you see somebody there really good and they are like ten steps ahead of you, her mother is a hundred steps ahead of you. She is always...she is figured out. Every possible outcome of every possible action has to do that because these are the things that are for the benefit of their people because they are always of the belief that from day to day any of these people can change their mind. You could be under attack from the Paradoxan’s who are the regular people who fear you because of your power and then the Revenants who are your other half because of your access that they don’t have and that they have to rely on you. So you're stuck in the middle dealing with these people and the concept of having to kind of circle the wagons and take care of your own I guess that's the thing that I think comes out the most that I feel most. And it's interesting when I met William Hayashi years ago and through Discovery and Conception and it's kind of like we are all just flowing on the same wavelength of like...we have got to learn to take care of our own, you know. We have got to take care of our own...because you know if from day to day, week to week, when anyone decides that they don't like you or you know or they are afraid of you, you know then look at us now look at where I am now. I think a black man’s back must be the most horrible weapon in the world because everybody keeps shooting at them you know. It is like your horrible frightening back and we look at it and we are...I think I have learned so much during this period I mean I am mortified by the fear, the hatred. It's crazy, but that concept of you know kind of circle the wagons because if we dont you know we are just kind of out there. You know, unprotected and expecting our protection to come from either one or the other side of our heritage and… (Alicia: It really have to come from within) ...exactly exactly, 

Alicia: I hear you. So you do want to give us an idea about...I think you have spoken a lot about the diversities in your stories...but if somebody, if a reader will be interested in your diverse world, what you know, how should they give you a shot with your diverse world? 

Penelope: Why would they do that? Well, I think I would hope that the world is such..cause I said it is diverse. A lot of people, different backgrounds. There are, you know Asian people in it, there are Latinx people, there are Anglo people. There are even within the interregional organization different religions. They have their own religions but they also associate with another religion that is like you know a religion that people will normally have within the Paradox because they're supposed to be quote on quote blending in. So they blend in by what they wear, how they act, how they interact, but they are also known is what they are, And you know people see them and they are I don't know if you know in New York were they have some of the segment in New York they have the aseptic juice who live in their own place like kind of their own thing that’s kind of how the Renfields are. People know who they are and they are kind of untouchable where they are. They have you know agreements with how they get to interact with this world so it's all very corporate. I mean everything in Renfields is very, very corporate. It's very business you know, it's part of the larger world we created which we call life in the Paradox. The life in the Paradox has a lot of different stories in it that aren’t...the Renfields you see no Renfields in that story but you know you're watching television and you're seeing  the Renfield you know what's going on the ticker tapes saying well the Renfield stock is up or down that day or you know but they are just part of the universe of the life of the paradox.

Alicia: Got ya. Ok so you're saying that Ramona she’s your main character right? Alright so you wanted--I think you a little bit alluded  to what's at stake for her and what she needs but did you want to expound on that a little bit more?

Penelope: Sure. Ramona is like in my mind I created her as every black girl. She's every black girl that you know you grew up and she is fortunate enough to have a system--theirs has a system where you have three parents. You have your mother and your father and then your mother has another you know husband, or your father has another wife, or whatever but you know it's called a commitment and the person in the middle of the commitment chooses the other two members. That is who her mother was. Her mother chose the other two and these people are chosen specifically because of the issues with security with raising children and she is raised by these three individuals and these three individuals of course make her ready for the role that they believe she is suited for. Now she has got siblings and her siblings are very smart and very clever, but you know her younger sisters they are all about money you know and they you know they don't want responsibility they just want money and they like travel between the two universes and doing their thing. She has another younger brother who is you know more erudite. He is more of an academic. He is not interested in doing this thing, so it's almost with her that she is's like not just a choice, kind of like a burden. And you know how it is when you're growing up and you're that smart kid and you say, “Boy! I would really like to be a writer” and your family says, “No you gotta be a doctor.” (Alicia: Right or an Engineer) You know it. These are the things you know they tell us you can't do that you have to do a profession and that’s basically what Ramona’s story is. That you know her people have decided for her her parents have decided for her that you are capable therefore you must which is the life that many of us live. You are capable therefore you must! And then we find ourselves now our children you know leaving home and having had careers do other things then being able to step out again and do this thing we wanted to do from the very beginning now realizing the importance of it because everyone else gets to have their make belief that forms the basis of their character the basis of their culture. but we have not. You know again like I said why is their flying man anymore valid than their flying man? You know. So...and our kids have got to understand that your flying man is just as valid you know. Your woman who is the super strong is just as valid. And that is what this is about you know. That thing that...I mean we can’t get away from it. We know it exists.

Alicia: That sense of urgency and ownership and empowerment that comes from seeing yourself in that imaginative world and using your imagination to get there.

Penelope: Exactly and that's what I want this for. Now my first book Regarding Koescu certainly skewed more erotic. The first book of Ramona--of course it still has you know the interactions the romantica not as erotic as Regarding Koescu because I don’t...I think there eventually will be what I call a purple rose version of the first book of Ramona. But this will be the red rose version which is the different hierarchy in Renfield is red, gold, black and purple. The purple is actually lower but the purple because everyone understands purple prose. Its going to be you know later on the more erotic versions of the stories that will be written now with the first book of Ramona will of course it will have the romantic you know scenes and you know the personal sexual you know interactions between she and the people that she has had relationships with. That’s another thing too that I think the concept of telling young women or even men. One person, one guy, one girl, whatever that’s it the end. Is something we need to get away from. It's like no, you get out there and you meet different people and you like them or you don't like them you see what you like and dislike and move on to someone else if this is her view. Don’t feel compelled to stay in a relationship just because this was simply first relationship. So all those things I put on there because basically if I could be like everyone’s mother you know this is what i'll try to tell them. This is what are, you know what I am trying to tell you and the things that you know when we were brought up you know we weren't supposed to be saying, or what we weren't supposed to say you know “don't talk about those things'' you know. I want those things out there where if you can’t find it home at least find it in a book you know like it’s ok that you don't like this guy anymore it's ok that you don't like this girl anymore at least not that way. You know and you get to move on and they get to move on you know and I'm going to take a short detour and say the first time I watched the K Drama and there was this guy and the leading lady was all into this guy but then there was this guy who had been her friend for a long time was carrying the torch for her. He was smart, he had money, he really cared about her, he you know put himself out there you know to you know let her know how he felt and in the K Drama you know what happened? Well I am not interested in you. I like this other guy. I done lost my mind. In our our western view just because he is smart and sweet and good and stuff and she is supposed to not like who she likes when I like you now, you know. That's the way we are programmed our men and our women to believe. If I can stalk you long enough then you have to like me and I was stunned, stunned that is kind of like, ok yeah that's nice but that she ain't into you shrug, shrug shrug, run along and you know what, that you'll see all the time in K Dramas. The leading male, the leading female they are into each other. It doesn't matter whether somebody that we think is better likes them. It's just irrelevant. Cause guess what, they don't like them. They are not into them that way and we have not taught our children and we have not been taught appropriately, that thing. I watched a film, Betty Davis...what is his name, one of the Barrymores? I can't remember which one, that he was this guy and he come to their little gas station at the very last stop before you enter into you know that area where there is nothing going into the desert. But there was this guy in that restaurant who worked there she worked there as her father’s restaurant and the guy who liked her I mean it was just like was all over her like a cheap suit you know. I mean for a movie for that period I mean I was kind of taken aback. I mean like kissing on her she didn't want to be kissed by him. But basically he is working for her father and I guess they need people out there to work so she didn’t feel that it appeared as appropriate for her to push him off and her father said, “oh yeah well this is going to be your boyfriend” or you know you two getting, you know getting along blah blah. But this father saw this man over his daughter. He didn’t say “Look!, you don't get to do that” (Alicia: Alright. No boundaries) Stop! You're done! And our young men grow up seeing these things and believe that as appropriate behaviour and we have not told them. You know we look at that movie even in that movie and it comes it was like a turner classic movie when they described the movie. Not once did they say anything about the inappropriate nature of what it was that was done because they don't even see it. They don't even acknowledge it. They don't recognize  that this thing is so horrible and she has nowhere to go. That she has to stay there and put up with this man pouring on her and saying the line to her well I know I feel this way about you so that means you feel this way about me. Basically when it comes down to all of us as writers, I think what it is especially black writers black female writers at this time at this time, this renaissance, we are trying to fix the world through our writing. We are all trying to fix it. You know, we don't know how far we are going to get but everything we know, everything we have been through, everything we have experienced or seen all the people experience, we’re trying to fix it you know so I would say when people look at our works if why should you look at this work? Why should you read my stories? Because just like my sisters here who are involved in this we are trying to fix it you know. There may be something in here that you and you go on in your life in whatever it is that you do that will spark something that will help you figure out how to fix it. That is what I would say you know we are trying to fix it so just read it and maybe you'll find something that would help you discover that fix. 

Alicia: Yes Ma’am. Ok, so you're ready to read your scene?

Penelope: Yeah. Hey, where is my scene? I don't know. I try so hard to get all these stuff together. So yes, this is my scene. Comes from of course the first book of Ramona. I did not...I first thought about doing my Unfleamed but the Unfleamed story is short so if I did, you know a significant portion of it I would be giving away all my story so I decided instead to go with another issue and this is from:

The Chronicles of Renfields: The First Book of Ramona by Penelope Flynn 

CHAPTER 1 – 1928

Ramona clambered eight stories up the fire escape of a building in the financial district less than three hours before she was scheduled to appear at the opening ceremonies of the year's Constabulary. It was the Equinox and the waning crescent moon provided scant light into the city's pitch black side streets. She turned up the collar of her uniform

coat against the chill of the early spring breeze, its deep crimson billows blending in with the building's brick exterior as much as her satin skin blended into the night sky.

She hopped onto the roof then crouched down minimizing her nearly six foot frame, shielding herself from view. She gazed at the opening to the alley then glanced at her watch scowling as precious minutes ticked away. She had posted most of her officers close to Wall Street, a place bustling with activity during the day but it was quiet... nearly soundless late Friday night. The smells however remained. They rose all around them... a mixture of pleasant and repugnant. They were used to it. Ramona had been a city dweller for the vast majority of her life, from Paris, to London, to New York the places their corporate occupations took them, where their presence was needed, most.

Her posture stiffened as she focused. Those of her kind had olfactory, audio, tactile, visual acuity and gustatory perception far beyond that of the natives who lived in the place her people called “The Paradox” and that night they would employ most of those capabilities in completing their assignment.

Ramona's sensory mastery was unparalleled, which is why from eight floors up, and miles away from her current location she could hear music playing in a club uptown where there was dancing, food and physical attraction. The sense of blood from accelerating pulses perfumed the air, even at that distance. Her eyelids fluttered rapturously as she slowly inhaled through her mouth, tasting the sensory essence. Her head swam and her body flushed while her sharp exsanguinating fleams and fangs broke through threatening to drop into place. Focus in close, she thought then forced herself to concentrate on assessing only the few blocks around her. Anything else was a distraction and in New York City on a Friday night at the height of the Jazz Age there were bound to be many, many distractions.

Her lieutenant, Eugene who was stationed several blocks away called to her through their mind-speak a form of two-way telepathy, Deputy Director, there’s nothing on this end. Maybe we’ve timed it wrong.

Maintain positions and keep senses on high alert, she responded, They’ll be here.

During the past month four different groups of people had simply vanished without a trace around midnight near Wall Street. The incidents had been kept out of the newspapers but when the families and friends of the missing began making inquiries to the New York Police Department, Renfield International’s CEO received a personal call from Mayor Jimmy Walker, himself suggesting that the disappearances might be related to the types of security issues Renfield International commonly dealt with, things the mayor referred to as “ghoulies and ghosties / And long-leggedy beasties / And things that go bump in the night.” Pursuant to Treaty and Contractual Agreement with the city, those things fell under the jurisdiction of Renfield’s Investigations and Enforcement Division. As a result they were immediately set to the task of locating and eliminating the source of the problem.

Ramona scratched the back of her head and for a moment recoiled feeling the absence of the nearly three foot long coarse braid that used to run down her back. The hair was cut so short now that it was almost impossible at a distance to appreciate the natural curl and crimp. Then her stomach began to rumble. She hadn’t eaten all day. “Poor planning,” she whispered under her breath, then muttered, “Two hours.” She had exactly two hours to complete the surveillance, file the paperwork, rush home, wash, change and head to the opening ceremonies of the Constabulary, Renfield International’s corporate retreat.

The Constabulary hosted the corporation’s most influential and powerful members. Delegates would be arriving from all over the globe. However any outsiders who were aware of the festivities were also aware that the corporation's security teams would be stretched thin. It was therefore no surprise that whenever the two-week event was staged there was always an uptick in supernatural-related criminal activity.

We’ve got something, Eugene conveyed. And it’s coming your way.

Alicia: Ok. Thanks for saying your scene. I appreciate you. So you want to tell me where readers should go to find you and your work?

Penelope: Well you can find my work at If you really get into Renfields which I hope people will or it will go to the same place and if you really, really enjoy what I do, you can actually find me at patreon. You can become a patron at So I hope people will enjoy it. I hope they'll be able to see all the allegories and the analogues that are built into it and maybe even see some I didn't even recognize when I wrote it. But again you know, what we do when we write this things that we are looking at our world and we are trying to I guess express you know how we can make things better or at least issue spot notice the things that are going on maybe someone else can make it better 

Alicia: Yes. Grapple with it. Ok so I'll also love to hear what readers think about Penelope’s stories. Feel free to post a comment on my blog. Either me or Penelope will respond. Ok everybody, I am author Alicia McCalla and I write science fiction and fantasy stories for readers who want diverse protagonists and unique story lines. If you've enjoyed this episode and would want to support me or donate to my cuppa tea fund just head on over to my blog on my website. Find this post and click on the donate button at the bottom and if you are not one of my subscribers and want to join my league of heros, go to to sign up for my newsletter, get updates, learn about my latest projects and purchase my diverse scifi and fantasy stories. And if you're already one of my subscribers thank you so much and please feel free to share this podcast with anyone you think might enjoy it. Ok Penelope, I always end with either some kind of special saying so I'm going to go for Wakanda forever today. You wanna go with me. Alright Wakanda forever and thanks for listening, everybody.

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